Self-defence is an ancient right

Self DefenseA week ago last Sunday, Johnathan Tews had just arrived at his parents’ home in the working-class, west end Edmonton neighbourhood of Canora. He was talking to his father who was relaxing on a recliner in the living room when he heard a commotion on the street out front.

When Tews looked out, he saw his mother returning home from a grocery errand fighting off two men who were trying to force their way into her car.

  • tom_billesley

    The cops divide people into perpetrators and victims.
    If you don’t act like a cowed victim, you must be another perpetrator.

    • Justin St.Denis

      I suspect the average Canadian cop is much less intelligent than the average Canadian. That’s bound to lead to problems….

      • dance…dancetotheradio

        That explains police chiefs.

      • shasta

        I have read that some police departments in the States will not accept any applicants with an IQ much above 100. I would not be surprised if it is the same in Canada.

        • dance…dancetotheradio

          It’s called Affirmative Action.

  • Maggat

    The legal industry and it’s various unions will NOT tolerate scabbing.

  • JaedoDrax

    Here’s the problem in this case: “Tews went back to the house, grabbed a baseball bat and began pursuing the other attacker down the block.”

    Given the reported facts, yes, Tews should be charged, but he will likely be acquitted, unless he went and beat the wrong guy.

    • True, the pursuit will hurt him.

      • Drunk_by_Noon

        Why can’t you pursue?
        Generally we can down here.

        • markerc .

          The “immediacy” is over…no more threat, so by pursuing, you are going beyond what is necessary for self defence.

          • canminuteman

            If someone starts a fight with me I reserve the right to finish it by ant means necessary. If the guy attacked you once, how do you know he isn’t going to come back and try again?

          • markerc .

            Ha! Don’t shoot the messenger! I was merely replying to Drunk by Noon’s question….I have no problem with the guy catching him and smacking him….I’m sure I would have done the same.

          • mobuyus

            Ya let him go to jump someone else’s mum eh. You don’t have to be a cop to protect the weak and innocent. Had it been my Mom the fucker would have been beaten within an inch of his life and with my St John’s Ambulance training I’d have revived him and beaten him within an inch of that retched life.

          • markerc .

            See reply above…

          • mobuyus

            Sorry about that ,I guess muslims and other miscreants have got me kind of jumpy nowadays.

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            They don’t allow ‘hot pursuit’ citizens’ arrest in Canada?
            He was observed in the act by his pursuer.

        • Tom Forsythe

          You can pursue a criminal if you catch him in the act, for the purposes of apprehending him. Even in Canada.

          The problem is that the use of force rules are different for capturing a fleeing criminal than they are for defending your life, or the life of another. Canadians don’t have “stand your ground” laws.

    • Alain

      So just let him go to come back and try again? No, I don’t think so.

    • V10_Rob

      The second guy ‘walked away like nothing had happened’. To me, that does not suggest he had broken off the attack and was fleeing. He had disengaged, and was lingering to see if there was an opportunity to re-engage.

      A mugger picks a victim and tries to rob them. The victim is tougher than they look, or a third party interrupts the attack. The tables having been turned somewhat, the mugger runs across the street and stops. They’ve not been chased off, they’re watching and waiting to try again.

  • G

    Big, tough, hero cops hate it when they don’t get to be the big, tough, heroes.

    Lawyers hate it when people try to control their own lives.
    To hell with them both.
    Next time, drag the perpetrators into an alley where there are no witnesses, beat them close to unconsciousness and tell them if they call the police or you ever see them again no one will find their bodies.
    Then leave it. Don’t call the cops. The cops can go back to what they do best, protecting Hamas protestors and arresting 5 year olds for drawing pictures of guns.

  • lolwut?

    If I see a cop being attacked, I’ll walk away

    • G

      Unfortunately many feel the same way and police have only themselves to blame.
      The middle class white traditionalist citizen was the cops’ staunchest ally, but the police (just like so-called “conservative” political parties) squandered that good will so screw them.

  • Tom Forsythe

    Before attacking me, I have not formed an opinion about this specific case. I am only speculating as to why police MIGHT have laid charges.

    You have the right to use reasonable force to defend yourself or another person. The level of force must be proportional to the threat, and must cease when the assailant surrenders.

    It would be illegal to, for example, smack a criminal around with a baseball bat in order to teach him a lesson, or because you are really mad at him.

    Understand, as long as the guy is putting up a fight, I say you are free to give him the full Rodney King. But once he is down, you have to stop, or you become a criminal.

    It is at least possible that the person charged in this case may have used excessive force. Both assailants were transported to hospital by ambulance.

    • P_F

      What constitutes ‘reasonable force’; that’s been debated in the courts and has never been settled. In the heat of the fight you can’t measure how much force is reasonable or appropriate to incapacitate the perpetrator. Moreover an ordinary citizen with no law enforcement background but with some self-defense skill & training and a will for self-protection would only think of mitigating the threat he would have no idea how much force is needed to eliminate that immediate threat.

      • G

        but judges are all knowing and all wise and will be able to tell from their ivory tower exactly how much force would have bee appropriate.

        • Tom Forsythe

          How do you have the rule of law without judges?

          • G

            Judges, especially Canadian judges have molded Canadian justice into their own personal fiefdom where no one else has a say. The victims don’t. The police don’t. The public doesn’t (laws created by duly elected officials be damned).

            They have feathered their own nests and carefully groomed their own power structure all in the name of a deliberately nebulous concept called “judicial independence” which, of course only judges can define (convenient) .

      • Tom Forsythe

        There are centuries of precedent on the subject of reasonable force. The reason we have to have judges in the first place is that there are many legal principles that have a subjective component.

        The rule of law precludes street justice, which is entirely different from self-defense.

    • G

      People get transported by ambulance for a broken fingernail when the police are involved if they whine loud enough, — (and they a correctly dark enough skin color) – because the cops are spineless don’t want anything coming back on them.
      The ambulance reference without explanation means nothing.

      • Tom Forsythe

        As I stated at the beginning, I have not form an opinion about this specific case. You could be righr. But there isn’t enough information in the public record to simply declare that the police were wrong to lay charges.

  • Millie_Woods

    I don’t like this talk of a ‘right’ to self defence. Defending yourself is an existential instinct and no man, law, court or constitution has any business making a ruling on it. These jackasses in the justice system would have you believe that the vilest subhuman has the ‘right’ to a fair trial but a man’s right to defend his very life is something to be withdrawn at the discretion of the ruling class. Any government or legal system that considers this right to be negotiable is overstepping it’s boundaries.

    Beating the crap out of a criminal on the other hand is a right.

  • P_F

    Self-defense is a god given right -that’s why nature provided us with nails to fight back & protect ourselves. As criminals & terrorists have acquired new weaponry so we’ve a right to possess those or better weapons to protect ourselves.
    Any govt. official (or libtard from general public) telling otherwise is your worst enemy who wants you & your family to be harmed & dead by the hands of criminals or terrorists.

  • Uncommunist

    Just another of the thousands of cases in Canada recently that hilight the fact that the system works to extract money from nonaggressors that are attacked. Never discuss anything along these lines with the police, what you say is,” Happy answer your questions with my lawyer present”.
    50 years ago, this would have been met with derision and scorn at the police officers involved … 24/7.

  • dukestreet

    I used to volunteer with police and trusted them. Unfortunately, no longer.

  • The problem here is that a Canadian citizen behaved like the US police.