Is NATO worth preserving?

adefenseministers[1]“The alliance has been unwisely expanded from its original 12-nation membership to include 28 countries, absorbing many of the old communist Warsaw Pact nations and some former Soviet republics. NATO may have meant well to offer security to these vulnerable new alliance members. Yet it is hard to imagine Belgians and Italians dying on the battlefield to keep Russian President Vladimir Putin’s forces out of Lithuania or Estonia.”


I read a book recently on the Normandy campaign and in one passage a German general was found wondering how they could possibly expect to repel an invasion with the large number of “Hiwis”, Russian “volunteers” who stocked stretched thin Wehrmacht units stationed in key coastal sectors. He asked, roughly from memory; “How can we expect victory when we are asking Russians to fight the Americans and British in France on behalf of Germany?”

  • Hard Little Machine

    The short answer is no. Europe can’t defend itself individually and doesn’t want to defend itself collectively. The two biggest NATO partners are the US and Turkey – not European states. At the height of the Cold War NATO doctrine assumed the use of tactical nukes to counterbalance Soviet massive numerical superiority. But there is not a European alive today who would permit that. Making the entire operational doctrine of NATO pointless. Therefore it only serves a very narrow purpose – bombing people in the Balkans and Libya, and then handing out blankets. Moveover after decades of not maintaining their forces and relying on the US so that they themselves can turn their armies into make-work programs, the NATO members has terrible operational readiness. They really don’t have any capability to fight.

    • Millie_Woods

      The US should have known better than to trust the europeans to hold up their end of the bargain. Dependability, sensibility and humility are not european traits. Also they appear to be incapable of judging the ramifications of their actions.

      • Hard Little Machine

        It may have simply outlived it’s usefulness. There’s no Warsaw pact and no more CCCP. Russian designs on Europe are more passive. Europeans don’t need an army unless they propose to create some kind EU-wide paramilitary police force.

        • Half Judean (Destroyer-Drone)

          “There’s no Warsaw pact and no more CCCP. Russian designs on Europe are more passive. “

          If ‘Finlandizing’ Europe counts as ‘passive’, then yeah, I’m sure Russian designs are benign. Although that means we’ll have to redefine the whole concept of passivity entirely thanks to that cutting-edge logic of yours.

          • Hard Little Machine

            There aren’t going to be massive armies storming through the Fulda Gap. If anything the Russians will create phony insurgencies – something NATO is wholly unsuited to combat.

          • Half Judean (Destroyer-Drone)

            Right. They’ll passively send unidentifiable boots on the ground to passively maintain & expand their dominion instead. Just like they passively did in the Ukraine and Georgia…all the while passively upholding their passive alliance in the passive SCO.

            No biggie.

          • Hard Little Machine

            You’re making my point. No one’s standing up for Georgia or Ukraine. They won’t stand up for Moldava, Latvia, the Karelian peninsula. The only problem will be how large an empire Russia can actually manage. Putin is a very conservative at heart. He won’t bite off more than he can chew.

          • Half Judean (Destroyer-Drone)

            Exactly, there’s no Warsaw Pact anymore. Only the passive SCO which passively stretches from St.Petersburg to Hebei. And which will soon enough incorporate passive India & Pakistan in the course of this year. Totally ‘making’ your point there as well from what I gather?

          • Half Judean (Destroyer-Drone)

            Look, I know you can’t handle sarcasm very well. And that’s completely fine, I for my part have a very low tolerance threshold for Putin groupies of your kind. To each his own. But it’s time for you to stop your JAP-kiddy tantrum and swallow your pride for once. So knock it off with the obsessive downvoting.

          • Half Judean (Destroyer-Drone)

            To clarify, it’s not the lack of points that annoys me, I’m all for you removing your name from each and every one of my posts. Judging from your J.A.P. behaviour, I actually consider the gesture to be a rare badge of honour.

            No, what annoys me is that you obsessively scour my posts despite having made my activity private. I couldn’t give less of a shit about you. In that regard, know that the pendulum swings both ways. And if you want to further escalate this. Then you’re messing with the right person.

            There, I’ve made my posts visible again. Will be much, much easier from now on. Now be quick with it.

            By the way, I almost forgot, how’s it rolling in Raleigh, South Carolina? I hear the weather’s pretty sunny at this time of the year.

  • Millie_Woods

    Is NATO worth preserving?

    Yes, as the North American Treaty Organization. Let the eurotrash deal with their own problems.

  • NATO is a paper tiger.

  • Jabberwokk

    No. Next question….

  • Sleepyjohn

    I am surprised no-one has commented on the hilarious contrast between the European Defence Ministers and their Russian counterpart.

  • Norman_In_New_York

    Trump proposed that NATO be overhauled to accommodate today’s realities. The Cold War objectives, to keep America in Europe, Russia out, and Germany down, are all obsolete. And yes, Europe would have to foot more of the bill for keeping us in there.

    • dance…dancetotheradio

      We’ve been there for two world wars.
      Never again.