• Drunk_by_Noon

    Suspect had a knife.
    What’s the big deal?

    • Beats me.

      • andycanuck

        Beats me.
        That’s what Sammy said!

    • Yusuf_al_Kafir

      The pathetically-desperate Toronto print media rarely if ever mentions that he was also holding his exposed penis.
      Toronto news channels rarely if ever show the part of the streetcar video where he is walking through the streetcar, penis exposed, and swinging a knife at frantic and fleeing passengers.

      That’s the attitude of the Toronto media: don’t mention that he was holding his penis and maybe they can portray Sammy as an average, level-headed person who just happened to be trying to stab people on a streetcar.

    • canminuteman

      The big deal is the kid was disabled, lying on the ground after the first two rounds, and the cop dumped the rest of his mag into him, then another cop jumped on his corpse to taser him for good measure.

      He was in a streetcar alone at the time. I suspect they could have locked up the streetcar and gone for coffee to wait for the kid to get bored then go and get him.

      I don’t particularly care about this kid, but the cops will treat you with exactly the same violence and disdain whenever you have an encounter for any reason. I think a lot of our cops are ill disciplined louts with bad leadership (cops from my local force are always in the news for doing something wrong), and given how much money we spend on policing we have a right to expect better.

      • Physics grad

        so what.

        If he did not want to be shot he should have not pulled out his dick and a knife.

        he got what he deserved

        • canminuteman

          Bullshit. We do not hire police to be judge jury and executioner. That is the sort of behaviour you get from cops in Mexico, where they clear the streets of criminals by murdering them. The police are there to uphold the law. The law says you don’t threaten people with knives in public, so if you do you get arrested. I am not expecting the cops to not defend themselves if they have to, but in this case, even if the cop had to shoot, which I am not disputing, once he was down there was no reason to kill him.

          • Physics grad

            use of lethal force was justified, so you can not complain about the outcome

          • canminuteman

            If he had shot the kid twice and stopped I would not be complaining about the outcome, and the kid may be dead or alive. From the actions of this cop I get the impression that he was a rabid dog, who should never have been on the street with a badge and a gun. How many other cops are out their who are like this guy? Would you want him patrolling your neighbourhood when you are walking home from your local bar drunk?

          • Physics grad

            If some muslim was attacking me while coming home from drinking I certainly would want this cop to be right there to shoot the muslim, no questions asked. But I suppose that you are implying that I should put myself in Sammy’s shoes and imagine myself threatening the police with a knife. Drink or no drink, I know that you do not do that. Anyone who does do that is a threat to the public and always will be a threat to the public. I am no fan of our overpaid cops and agree that corruption and incompetence is a problem for ALL public sector employees, not just the cops, but the liberal courts have not earned my trust so any time they are in a situation like this where lethal force is justified I expect them to use lethal force with extreme prejudice. That’s what I pay them for. This is not some case of a cop killing a person on their own time or committing some corrupt act. This was the use of lethal force in the line of duty against criminal that he had no prior association with and no possible premeditated motive with so I do not expect back seat driving over the adrenaline soaked thinking that goes on in these situations, rather I expect that any issues with his actions be handled by internal discipline and training measures.

          • Clink9

            Police are trained to shoot until the threat is gone. They can’t see where the bullets have landed.

          • canminuteman

            They can’t see that their target is lying on the ground in a pool of blood not moving?

          • Clink9

            Maybe in daylight, not on a streetcar.

          • Bataviawillem

            I watched the video and they should never ever hired that guy as a cop, he was scared shit less and mentally not up for the task.

          • canminuteman

            I think a competent cop wearing body armour and carrying a club could have taken him down without a gun. I think most of our cops are cowards. If you can’t hand a teenage boy when you are a trained cop wearing armour and armed with a side handled baton, you shouldn’t be a cop. Britain is probably more violent than here and most of their cops manage without guns.

          • Bataviawillem

            100% agree, 30 years ago the little punk would have had the beating of a live time, and that would have been just, and it would have been a learning moment for him.

        • Clink9

          Exactly. If my daughters were on that streetcar and some psycho whips out a knife and his wiener, I want him taken down like dog.

          If I do that, you have my permission to empty your mag.

      • Drunk_by_Noon

        Uhhh… yeah!
        When I was arrested for punching out some a-hole back in the early 90’s (who sorely needed it) I avoided getting ventilated by the police because as soon as they showed up, I ceased what I was doing and complied with all officer instructions.
        Why can’t others do that?
        When the cops show up, playtime is over.
        Attitude man, attitude!
        Respect the badge and the gun, and you will almost always live to see tomorrow.
        That was one wild assed day BTW!

        • canminuteman

          Why can’t others do that? Because everyone is not sane and in their right mind when they encounter the police, and it shouldn’t be an automatic death sentence to not be. I am glad you put the qualifier almost in your penultimate sentence.

          • Bataviawillem

            Absolutely right, here is a video clip of a mentally ill guy dressed in a hospital gown waiving a pair of small scissors with at least 6 cops around him, when he did not drop the “weapon” they killed him with 3 bullets.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX47Gi-dzQA

            And here an other one.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLo18EcZxsY

          • k

            You DO NOT call Police when the mentally ill are a problem
            YOU CALL THE AMBULANCE!
            The Police are a para military group not a bunch of social workers!

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            It’s a good rule to live by.
            I think that if you are so messed up that you are wagging your wiener in public and threatening people with knives, and after the police tell you to knock it off, you likely need killing.
            I could be wrong, but that’s how I see things.
            Some people just need killing.

          • canminuteman

            I won’t disagree with that.

      • Clink9

        The cop that tazed him was called in because not every cop carries one. In the fog of the situation he didn’t know the kid had been shot already.

      • I do not dispute that many cops are useless.

        However, if the point of this conviction (as baffling as it it is) is to make cops accountable, then why haven’t cops who let Caledonia rot been punished?

        The killing of Sammy Yatim was unpopular and the legal system of Canada let everyone know it.

        To hell with right or wrong.

        • canminuteman

          The cops at Caledonia will never be punished because they wee dong exactly what their political masters wanted them to do.

          • My point remains.

            Cops are not meant to be accountable. Public opinion (the one deemed correct) sways things.

    • Canadian Born

      It’s because he was a foreigner, have people listened to his mother on TV? It was said he was kicked out of his house because they couldn’t handle him. We always treat foreigners better than Canadians born and raised here. Shame on this country.

      • andycanuck

        And our media wanted their own, homegrown Michael Brown/Trayvon Martin.

  • Cat-astrophe

    It works like this in the new Canadian legal system: Charge the cop with attempted murder, pay the legal system millions of dollars in wasted money to prove he did kill the kid, then re-trial the whole affair just to charge the cop with….MURDER!!

  • WIPFISDIS

    So the cop fired three shots which killed the suspect and later fired 6 more times at the suspect not knowing that the first 3 shots killed him.

    He was charged with murder for the first 3 shots and attemped murder for the last 6 shots.

    The cop got off on the murder charge because it was justified, but was found guilty of attemped murder for the last 6 shots which didnt kill the suspect because he was already dead.

    • Okey Dokey;)

    • canminuteman

      That’s how I understand their logic.

      • andycanuck

        Or the Crown overcharging hoping to get a conviction on anything?

        • canminuteman

          Maybe, or the crown set it up for a mistrial by charging him with something he should never been convicted of.

  • moraywatson

    He only formed the intent to want to kill him after his intent no longer mattered.

    • Waffle

      I think this is what happened: it was the end of his shift, Forcillo was probably pissed that he had to answer this call. He saw a hopped up kid, prancing around with his penis hanging out, weilding what was probably no larger than a pen knife and yelled at him to drop the knife When Sami didn’t and Forcillo realied that to talk him down and deescalate the situation was going to take some time, he decided to take the risk and take drastic action.

      Why wouldn’t he wait for the Taser guys? Why did his partner put away her gun? Because Officer Forcillo was going to miss his favourite tv show and hurry home to the delicious home-made dinner his wife had waiting for him, he didn’t have time to follow procedure. He felled Sami in 3 shots but when he saw him lying there he got really mad because he knew he was going to be late anyhow because he would have to fill out all kinds of paper work, so he vented his anger on Sami’s dying or lifeless body. He does not deserve to wear a badge and the jury probably got it right.

      But this brings up a matter that nobody really wants to talk about and that is the matter of holding back ones feelings when one is supposed to be acting in a professional manner, especially cops, nurses, doctors, lawyers, etc.

      • moraywatson

        Nice theory. But he is still found not guilty of murder. And this change of mental state seems to be a contrivance.

        • canminuteman

          He was found not guilty of murder because the first few shots, which killed the kid were considered fair play, which I agree with. Charging someone with attempted murder in a case where the victim is dead sounds like legal stupidity. I would be curious if there are other cases where someone has been charged with attempted murder when the victim was dead.

          • Physics grad

            it will fail on appeal – you can not logically commit attempted murder of an already dead person so his intent is immaterial. This is an appeal-able error in law by the jury and allowed to stand by the judge.

          • canminuteman

            I think you are probably right, but I don’t know enough about the law to know. The logic seems crazy to me.

          • Physics grad

            that’s because the logic is crazy

          • Justin St.Denis

            Law is a bitch, not logical. I thought everybody knew that.

          • moraywatson

            Perhaps this is just a case of bad nomenclature; “attempted murder” doesn’t describe the crime. Non-consensual sex with a corpse is not called “attempted rape”.

        • Waffle

          This was a very political trial. The event occurred at a time when U.S. cops were under seige. (much the same as when the Crown was faced with the matter of how to charge Homolka). Not wanting to risk anarchy in the streets of Toronto, they had to charge Forcillo in such a way as to satisfy public demand for justice and to give Forcillo the possibility of an “out” which would also satisfy union demands. He had a very good lawyer. The jury had little choice as their choices were restricted. I think union demands had a very heavy influence on the Crown’s decision-making.

          • El Martyachi

            Anarchy in the streets of Toronto? Not gonna happen… it’s not like they’re bringing back the sodomy laws or anything.

      • Physics grad

        look at that picture, that’s no pen knife, no matter what the SJW’s keep saying

        • Waffle

          I was guessing and being facetious. My point was that Yatin was clearly disturbed and if Forcillo had been acting like the professional he was supposed to be, he would have recognized that and pulled out his psychology tool kit instead of his gun. (Where the hell is Sgt. Parker when you need him? ;))

          • Clink9

            And if Sammy had of taken those 2 seconds to run at the cops, we’d have an alive loony to pay for for 60 plus years and a dead cop.

          • canminuteman

            The cop has got body armour and a club. If he can’t handle a teenaged boy with a knife while armoured and armed with a side handled baton (and ten other cops as back up), maybe he should have found another line of work.

  • Ron MacDonald

    How can a defendant be found guilty of attempted murder not guilty of manslaughter when the guy that was shot is dead?

  • BillyHW

    Only a female jury could have tied this knot.

    • Alain

      Or judge.

  • k

    If you do not give Law Enforcement any authority… then there is no ENFORCEMENT
    You call the Police when negotiation has failed!
    Calling the Police = no more chances
    Criminals take what liberties they can squeeze from society!
    Canadians do you side with the …
    Police (who fight for YOUR RIGHT TO LIVE WITHIN SOCIETIES NORMS)
    or
    The Criminal (who feels the right to take what they want from YOU when THEY want)

    • canminuteman

      I have had enough involvement with the police and know other people who have that I don’t share your optimism. the police are just another criminal gang, who are on our side when it is convenient for them.,

      • k

        Well as I have had more than enough contact with likable therefore VERY successful criminals to last a century of reincarnations
        I’d still side with the Police… knowing there are a few criminal infiltraiting bad apples.
        Let’s face it… criminals stick their paddle in everyone’s creek!

      • Bataviawillem

        And it’s the not duty of the police to protect the citizen, there is no ruling or law on that.
        http://disinfo.com/2010/03/the-police-arent-legally-obligated-to-protect-you/

        • andycanuck

          I know that’s true of the States, BW, but I don’t know about that in Canada.

          • Bataviawillem

            It’s true for Canada, you can bet the farm on that.

  • Yusuf_al_Kafir

    I’m not siding with Sammy, I’m just proposing a non-fatal alternative to keep the progressives happy and provide some amusement to the rest of us.

    I propose that police forces get some of those nifty pigeon nets to deal with knife-wielding antagonists.

    How demoralizing would it be to get thwarted by a simple pigeon net?…..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2oaflYnqvE

    • Kathy Prendergast

      People who wield knives on buses and terrorize other passengers are no loss to the world.

    • Kathy Prendergast

      Unfortunately, you can still stab someone through a net.

  • k

    You keep shooting at the target to make sure he is dead and doesn’t…
    – fake death only to stab you when you go to the body
    -get into an EXTREME state of excitability where one person can have the strength of 10 men
    If you do not drop the weapon on command then you’ve lost your chance!
    You can not have a wishy washy Police Force…
    who keeps giving the criminal all sorts of chances
    Criminals will play the Force for Fools and …
    then where is the safety for you Mr & Mrs Joe Average?!

  • mobuyus

    30 years ago this would have been filed as Death by Misadventure.

    • Bataviawillem

      No, 30 years ago a 200+ lb cop would have gave this guy the beating of his live time with the night stick.

  • Mr_bigstuff

    Another charade of a police trial – It was mentioned the cop was a ‘gym rat’ who may have been ‘roided up – That he has been spoken to for drawing his gun about a dozen times previously -This was barely mentioned- Within 50 seconds of arrival he blasted the kid – Now he will be suspended with pay and protected by the association even tho’ he has been found guilty -The association like all unions bend over backwards to protect the bad apples which drags down all the good members to the losers level – He should be sentenced and dismissed – From now on all police who tune up somebody or shoot some one should face mandatory drug tests – Nothing will come of this –

  • Gaylord Ponce

    I think Forcillo got a bum rap. If you had a gun and some asshole was coming at you with his dick in one hand and a knife in the other, what would you do? And don’t tell me you would shoot him in the leg either. I fire a handgun on a weekly basis and it’s damn near impossible. Save your armchair quarterbacking for a football game.
    This is serious business.

    • canminuteman

      Body armour, club, and ten guys backing him up. That should have been enough. Or even earlier they could have contained him in the streetcar and gone for coffee ’till morning.

  • andycanuck

    Yeah, that’s what I said when I first saw the news especially after I discovered that there was also a manslaughter charge that the jury also refused.

  • andycanuck

    For our Libertarians here attacking the cop (and I realize that you’re not lib-left types), don’t you think the Crown overcharging someone even if it wasn’t to make a political point (as seems the case here IMHO) is more dangerous to liberty than one trigger-happy cop?

    • canminuteman

      Yes I do. Despite being one of the guys going on about the injustice of this shooting, I probably would have been happy if they just charged him under the police act and fired him.

  • marty_p

    He was strung out on coke and ecstasy, holding a knife in one hand and his privates in the other, threatened passengers on the streetcar and the media are eulogizing him like he was a saint.