The Trans Pacific Partnership? Game on! #elxn42

With the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) about to be signed, Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper is in a solid position to use it as a wedge issue between the Liberals and the NDP. Depending on how this is played, it will be critical for all three parties.

The TPP is a massive trade agreement – the largest in world history – that began back in 2006 with Brunei, Chile, Singapore, and New Zealand. It is now being negotiated with the addition of United States, Australia, Peru, Vietnam, Mexico, Japan and, yes, Canada. It is part of a strategic plan on the part of the United States and its larger corporations to isolate China in the Pacific. To sign on, Canada will have to give up supply management for its dairy industry, and it may take a hit in the automotive sector. The Canadian banks will love it, because it gives them access to more and bigger deals.

trans-pacific-partnership-countries-with-us-total-trade-2013

Cui Bono?                            Pic source

It’s very difficult to point to the benefits of NAFTA if you reside in Rust Belt Ontario.

I can’t. Regardless there is lots of blame to go round.

That said, successive Liberal governments have helped destroy the manufacturing sector in Ontario with harmful, well actually lunatic energy policies that serve to benefit no one but party insiders.

Ontario is also home to a ruling class of 2 Million Public Servants, a major disincentive to investment.

They keep the Liberals in power and in reward they are given free reign to rape the tax payer.

Think of this before casting your vote for TommyTwoPassports or Justin.

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  • Drunk_by_Noon

    Hey, according to that map, you Canadians are literally worse than cholera.
    😉

    • Damn right.

    • Mike Williams

      Hey we pay you billions of dollars a year to take our garbage…ingrates

      • Drunk_by_Noon

        You’re approprating our garbage heritage, just like you stole all that land from those Indians!

        • mauser 98

          the dreaded Bluecoats

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            What did you do with all those Indian refugees that escaped to Canada after Little Big Horn? I hope you were able to civilize them.

          • mauser 98

            Custer’s smarter brother moved here

          • Clausewitz

            Nope, we sent them back. Your problem, your responsibility.

    • mauser 98

      i blame Justin speeches

      • Drunk_by_Noon

        He’s so dreamy!

        • DavidinNorthBurnaby

          Just ask the MSM. They have the biggest, most embarrassing crush.

          • Clausewitz

            They’ve gone way past crush to full fledged hard on.

  • Gary

    The public Union bosses rely on the ignorant peon members that are too stupid to see the Ponze scheme where there is not enough money in Canada to fund their gold-plated pensions and survivor benefits to hand over the bags of money to another generation after you die.

    • DavidinNorthBurnaby

      They’ll wind up lining up at ATMs for their allotted few bucks a day a la Greece, while PM Justin tries desperately to get more loans from the IMF.

  • irishrus

    After a brief period of cheap imports from Mexivo all we netted were lost jobs with the North American Free Trade Agreement of Mulroney and Reagan though I’m sure their parties if not pockets benefitted well.

    How is giving companies more third world countries to go to going to help us again?

    • The economy grew, the benefits did not exactly trickle down however.

  • Maurixio Garciasanchez

    Since the free trade came over here , the country stared losing jobs , especially Ontario ,most of the manufacturing sector moved to China

    • Mike Williams

      And we have all benefited from the much less expensive goods that resulted from this. How much do you think a flat screen TV would cost if it were still made at the Westinghouse factory in Hamilton?

      • Maurixio Garciasanchez

        It will be an affordable price , I remember the time when there was no free trade prices were affordable .

        • mauser 98

          no … a crappy tube colour tv was a 1000$ in 1970

        • Mike Williams

          Goods we take for granted now were considered luxury items back then. I’ve been in companies that moved from in-house, to North American contract, to Chinese manufacturing. The cost savings (and quite frankly quality improvement) enabled price reductions which opened up new markets or prevented bankruptcy

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Whatever is made in China sometimes it last for few months only .

          • Maurixio Villa-Lobos

            Oh, I don’t know. My made in China blow up doll is holding up well. Poor thing.

          • Cui Bono? You can’t buy much without a job.

          • Mike Williams

            You don’t have jobs without profitable companies. For every industry you prop up you hurt the businesses down the supply chain e.g. pizza shops that have to buy overpriced cheese. They tried this with steel but there was no way Stelco+Dofasco were going to compete against the then newer and bigger South Korean mills — not only did they lose the battle for cheap steel they lost the on finished steel goods (remember when Stelco made nails). They needed to (and eventually did) find niches where they could compete.

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Yeah but look at the at economy here in ont

          • terrence

            Look at the job-destroying bozo who is premier of ont

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            And who makes the top desicions here in Canada , is Harper and his Cons.

          • terrence

            the premier of ont makes a LOT decisions on her own – job destroying, massive price increases (eg hydro). Harper does NOT make provincial decisions.

            When you make SILLY, INANE comments like this MG, you are making a public display of how LITTLE you know about Canada and its political structures.

          • Justin St.Denis

            MG holds the international patent on Stupid.

          • terrence

            and Ignorance

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Who is making the trade deals with the rest of the world is the premier of Ontario ? You don’t know nothing about the economy , keep collecting walfare lazy bum .

          • terrence

            Do you TRY to make yourself look STUPID, MG. If you do, you are VERY SUCCESSFUL. Perhaps your silly, illogical nonsense is the result of English NOT being your first language – you certainly mangle it enough. You really do hold the international patent of STUPID and of IGNORANCE.

            You have NO IDEA how many university degrees I have in Economics, where I worked in economics, nor how much I made and currently DO MAKE. You really do make yourself look STUPID.

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Waw you make the money bills too , begging is the only job of your dream , Crack head .

          • terrence

            Do you TRY to make yourself look STUPID, MG. If you do, you are VERY SUCCESSFUL. Perhaps your silly, illogical nonsense is the result of English NOT being your first language – you certainly mangle it enough. You really do hold the international patent of STUPID and of IGNORANCE.

            PLEASE TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR RECTUM and AT LEAST TRY TO “ACT” HUMAN, and NOT STUPID.

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Take more drugs mentally retarded , an overdose will take care of you .

          • Jabberwokk

            Ah a well meaning friendly completely balanced and informed left wing advocate. I realize you only have our best wishes involved when you say things like wishing people death. But Thank you for agreeing that our differences are irreconcilable and the only feasible solution is separation.

          • Billy Bob Thornton

            I agree everything is interconnected and the majority of the decisions come from Ottawa but you have to understand Ontario’s corporate taxes are very low relative to Western corporate tax rates. Energy prices are not a factor as much as people think. Ontario would have had the jobs by now. We have outsourced manufacturing and nations that lose manufacturing cannot get it back and you cannot replace something that employment 400,000 with improving small business tax rates. There are not that many people willing to become small business owners. That is simply not possible to replace a sector as large as that. The idea of competing worldwide for the same manufacturing jobs means we have to constantly lower our wages compared to China. When will people on the libertarian right and the neoliberal right understand that?! That is the truth and 2008 was when most Western manufacturing sectors lost jobs. It was a trend yet people on here think it was due to energy prices?! Come on, give your head a shake!

          • Billy Bob Thornton

            The political class are simply sellouts for the rich and powerful.

            To me, there will now be a perpetual underclass and people may not believe this or not, but each election it seems like society is doing a lot worse than the previous election. Living standards are going down.

            People need to constantly go deeper and deeper into debt.

            Debt is what the system is based on.

          • Clausewitz

            Hey Billy, you need them to readjust your meds again, you’re talking to yourself again.

          • Jabberwokk

            I AINT GUNNA BE PART OF THIS SYSTEM!!!!1one

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ

          • David

            People here are so nice to you.

  • Mike Williams

    NAFTA maintained/protected the Auto Pact and without this the Canadian auto industry would have gone the way of the Australian (which will close its last plant next year)

    • It closing up bit by bit as it is, Mexico and right to work states are its destination.

      • Mike Williams

        Tariffs would have slammed the door shut. And Canadians would end up paying more for cars/trucks without the jobs

        • There is no answer then, Capital will follow the greatest return and the rest of us will be steadily impoverished as is occurring in Ontario.

          Free trade agreements benefit corporate elites and governments not citizens. I am all for a level playing field and free trade but let’s face the field has never been level.

          Why the need for mass immigration and the Temporary Foreign Workers program? Especially given that we are supposed to be on the cusp of “The Automation Of Everything”?

          The TFW and mass immigration drive wages down and create contrived shortages driving prices up ie. housing, that’s why. Cui Bono.

          We have provisions that allow us to challenge Mexican labour practices i.e. in the auto sector but we have never pursued them, neither has the US that I am aware of.

          Why is that?

          • Mike Williams

            While we export jobs to these economies they actually export their capital (their savings) back to us (by buying bonds, stocks, etc.) ref. the balance of trade vs. balance of payments. Our private sector needs to make better use of this almost free capital. Our public sector needs to stop driving up the cost of doing business. Ontario is the poster child for this and it is not just the high electricity prices the new retirement plan will be my estimates be a 1% hit to the bottom line of every Ontario business and given most businesses operate at below 10% profits, that is huge.

          • Billy Bob Thornton

            Ah so you agree with me that protectionism and some free trade done right is the way to go.

            I agree because free trade only benefits the rich and corporations and their bottom lines rather than a system of full employment. Full employment is not some socialist or communist plot but it is very much nationalistic which we had prior to Reaganism. Nowadays, in an era of cheap money, it is nearly impossible to have that because you are constantly trying to increase growth while wanting a perpetual underclass. Governments do lie about job numbers since many stop looking for work and are not included. I say this since it is the case and it has been proven by Obama, Harper and many world leaders worldwide, forcing unpaid internships and unpaid contracts and jobs.

            This should not occur and we need real leaders that are anti-globalization, nationalist, anti-corporate and for a real economic strategy. For me, it can only be the Canadian Action party at canadianactionparty.org.

          • Maurixio Garciasanchez

            Yeah you are right !

    • mauser 98
      • Mike Williams

        We still have access to the US market. Without this there would be insufficient demand to justify Canadian made autos. Australia and New Zealand have the population of Canada (and arguably more wealth) and there will be zero auto assembly plants there.

        • mauser 98

          OK … AutoPact benefits are gone
          60% Canadian auto content will be reduced to 40% under
          TPP… how is that good?

          TPP a Trojan horse
          Domestic court decisions and international legal standards
          eg.overriding domestic laws on both trade and non-trade matters, foreign
          investors’ right to sue governments in international tribunals that
          would overrule the national sovereignty);
          Environmental regulations (eg, nuclear energy, pollution, sustainability);
          Financial deregulation (eg, more power and privileges to the bankers and financiers);
          Food safety (eg, lowering food self-sufficiency, prohibition
          of mandatory labeling of genetically modified products, or bovine
          spongiform encephalopathy – BSE – or mad cow disease);
          Government procurement (eg, no more buy locally produced/grown);
          Internet freedom (eg, monitoring and policing user activity);
          Labor (eg, welfare regulation, workplace safety, relocating domestic jobs abroad);
          Patent protection, copyrights (eg, decrease access to affordable medicine);
          Public access to essential services may be restricted due to investment rules (eg, water, electricity, and gas).

          http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/JAP-02-270913.html

          • Mike Williams

            40% is better than 0%

          • mauser 98

            whew..

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            So Canadians will stop driving cars?

          • Mike Williams

            If Australia and Holden are the example, they will stop buying Canadian made cars. And Holden actually designed cars from the ground up, rather than just manufacture them.

        • The auto manufacturing sector has little reason to be located in Ontario any longer. Geographic proximity to Detroit had been a boon, particularly for parts suppliers, that is is no longer an advantage we enjoy as the manufacturers have all relocated to sunnier climes of one kind or another far distant from Ontario.

          Energy costs, driven sky high by Wynne and Co. are also a leading factor in Ontario’s de-industrialization.

  • mauser 98

    …..Barry sneaks in immigration changes with TPP

    “Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal would technically also be
    voting to massively expand President Obama’s executive authority when it
    comes to immigration matters.”
    Trade in Services Act (TiSA) is even more secretive than TPP
    “I think this whole thing makes it very clear that this administration
    is negotiating immigration – intends to make immigration changes if they
    can get away with it”

    http://conservativepapers.com/news/2015/06/10/exposed-the-secret-immigration-chapter-in-obamas-trade-agreement/

  • Mike Williams

    My concern is we have political parties/leaders that aren’t ready to confront the new global reality…we won’t be producing trade-able goods and services using unskilled workers. This job/wages gap isn’t going to filled by the services sector (e.g. waiters and bartenders) and I fear that the dopes who run this country will just increase the public service sector. We need to be an exporter of high-value goods (e.g. Germany), resources (oil, coal, lumber, etc.) and agriculture. TPP enables this but doesn’t guarantee it.

    • mauser 98

      many Asian countries have no guvmint health care … labour, environmental laws ignored or they have none
      not a level field.. yet we trade as if they do

      • Mike Williams

        Irrelevant…they internalize these costs while we pass them on to the producer. You should be more concerned about their currency manipulation. P.S. Singapore, Japan, Australia, and NZ could/would make the same case against Canada.

        • mauser 98

          yeah.. its called dumping

          • Mike Williams

            I totally agree. But how do you stop this without getting into tit-for-tat tariff wars? I say let them dump (and lower the real cost of our raw materials, tools, etc.) and we focus on adding value (e.g. building something using under-priced steel) and areas we have a competitive advantage (e.g. agriculture).

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            What’s wrong with a “tit-for-tat tariff war” with a country that is dumping goods on to your domestic market and manipulating their currency to your detriment?

          • Mike Williams

            It hasn’t worked in the past and ultimately damages the tariffing country plus you’d end up at the WTO and we know how that turns out — the bigger market ignores the findings. Do you realize we are in the middle of a currency war right now and its a little hard to punish Chinese currency manipulation when they hold billions of CDN$ and trillions of US$.

          • Drunk_by_Noon

            The statement that “it hasn’t worked in the past and ultimately damages the tariffing country” is just flat out false and completely discounts the economic harm being done to the country that is having goods “dumped” upon them.
            In fact, that’s exactly what tariffs are designed to do.
            The alternative is adopting the standards of living for your workers that the country who is doing the dumpling has.
            Do any of us want to live like Chinamen?

          • Mike Williams

            I guess if you had an example of where these tariff wars worked, I’d be more receptive. P.S. I’d be willing to bet >35M “chinamen” live as well or better than we do. P.P.S. I know from a “Team Canada” trade mission that the Indian government feels over 100M of their people live at the international standard for middle class or better level.

          • Billy Bob Thornton

            Me-thinks that with all the automation stories on BCF that BCF and its supporters probably support less births and less people working. Just a hunch! Without investment and the nation making things other countries want, that is how the nation will become competitive and do better. I very much agree with massive protectionism. We have passed the 30-year boom market and now are in an era of lower growth across the West. Don’t forget adding China in 1999 to the WTO was supported by both parties at the time in the United States. That caused all Western manufacturing sectors to be slowly outsourced. Now we know the results of selling out nations. The only way back is massive protectionism. Even the Canadian Action party believes in improving the free trade agreements, but I feel that we need more protectionism and to remove the free trade areas and agreements.

  • Maggat

    The auto industry, Ontario is the author of their own misfortune on that one and a two million plus civil service isn’t going to help them. End of supply management for agriculture, please, bring it on.

  • ntt1

    We are still seeing new unintended consequences of NAFTA , The TPP could be truly devastating ,it will have impacts way beyond short term cheap poultry and dairy.

  • Billy Bob Thornton

    Ah so you agree with me that protectionism and some free trade done right is the way to go.

    I agree because free trade only benefits the rich and corporations and their bottom lines rather than a system of full employment. Full employment is not some socialist or communist plot but it is very much nationalistic which we had prior to Reaganism. Nowadays, in an era of cheap money, it is nearly impossible to have that because you are constantly trying to increase growth while wanting a perpetual underclass. Governments do lie about job numbers since many stop looking for work and are not included. I say this since it is the case and it has been proven by Obama, Harper and many world leaders worldwide, forcing unpaid internships and unpaid contracts and jobs.

    This should not occur and we need real leaders that are anti-globalization, nationalist, anti-corporate and for a real economic strategy. For me, it can only be the Canadian Action party at canadianactionparty.org.

    It is a shame that economic liberalism has become such a Ponzi scheme.