For Once I Disagree With Ayaan Hirsi Ali

She believes Islam is capable of a “Reformation” (it’s the subject of her new book).

I think that, so far, Islam has shown itself capable of but one kind of “reformation”–the kind that looks backwards to an earlier and purportedly “purer” time, i.e. the time of Islam’s founder and his first few successors, the “rightly-guided caliphs”…

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  • winniec

    ‘Reformation’ is a word that implies that Allah is not all-knowing and that his revelation is not perfect, eternal and complete…implies that something must be added or subtracted to make the revelation ‘better’. Blasphemy!
    Since the Koran is eternal, it is has divine attributes and is even a part of Allah. This is where Muslims get confused and start killing people to cover up their intellectual dishonesty and insecurity.
    ‘Bida’ is innovation. All innovation is from Satan, so all innovation is bad.
    Therefore, Muslims cannot reform Islam even if they realize it is a huge mess. They want to go on breathing, so only a few have the courage to come out and say the emperor has no clothes…Islam is false.

    • Also consider that Muslims believe (see: surah 3) that God is a bigger liar than the Devil.

      So who do they believe?

      • ntt1

        they are confused by their own takkiya “when first we practice to deceive a tangled web the liar weaves”

        • I’d say a whole lot of the Koran is taqqiya.

          • Censored_often

            It’s all taqqiya except the few passages plagiarized by oral tradition from Christian and Jewish theological traditions.

          • Which the Muslims get wrong.

  • ontario john

    Ah yes, the good old days of mohammad. Murder, child abuse, goats, and invasion.

    • Censored_often

      Don’t forget polygamy and child marriage.

  • Dana Garcia

    Ayaan has some funny ideas, in particular the wonderfulness of immigration to educate backward Muzlims to the excellence of western values of gender equality, democratic governance, free speech, etc.

    Hey, it worked for her, so she wants more culture mixing.

    • Not all immigrants are nuts.

      The thing is there is no impetus to make immigrants acclimatise or assimilate in Western countries. These immigrants form enclaves where they keep their languages and even some of their customs instead of getting along with everyone else.

      The object shouldn’t be more immigration but more expectation on the part of citizens for immigrants to adapt.

      • Censored_often

        With satellite tv and the Internet, the socio-cultural umbilical cord, so to speak, is infinitely stronger than in the days of natural assimilation and the romanticized immigration of yesteryear. At the minimum, immigrants and their kids don’t need to assimilate except for school and work, and not even then in a lot of cases.

        • I think modern media is a bit too easy an answer. The dominant national culture can still be learned by immigrants if it is pressed upon them.

          I don’t care what occurs at home. If in public, immigrants hate everything about Canada except the welfare, we have problems.

          • Censored_often

            Welfare and Medicare, though I assume you mean the latter, too. I was shocked when approx. three years ago I lined up in the emergency hospital line and I was the only Canadian-born Caucasian – with a legitimate emergency – surrounded by immigrants using the hospital as another walk-in medical clinic. It was shocking, truly. And I didn’t hear a lot of English being spoken except the perfunctory showing of the Health Cards.

          • A lot of people cannot get a regular physician. I submit to you that some people don’t even try. They won’t shake the ways of their old countries and look for a regular doctor.

            I would refuse to give someone a health card unless they were a citizen (or just about to be one) and could explain in rudimentary terms their problems.

  • I suppose anything is possible. However, this would mean a radical shift into Muslims’ perfecting their theology instead of deifying and mimicking a war-mongering pedophile. I can’t see this reformation myself given the inherent tribalism, authoritarianism, violence and static customs.

  • Alain

    I do not doubt her sincerity, but even were such a reformation possible it is not even in the picture. We cannot afford to sit around doing nothing waiting for it to happen. Furthermore it can only be done by Muslims themselves, and at present they continuing fighting each other to impose their Islam on the other Muslims. At the same time every one of these groups/sects seek to dominate the world by imposing Islam on everyone so there are no true allies there.

    • Frau Katze

      They’re very far from anything faintly resembling “reform.”

  • ntt1

    In her interrupted and talked over travesty of an interview with progressive clown Jon Stewart she tried repeatedly to make the point that muslims must accept first, that the Koran is written by men not a god and as such can be modified by ignoring the warlike portions . until muslims accept that it won’t/can’t happen, I doubt it ever will .There are just too many illiterate inbred people to make the change.
    In conversation with a civilized muslim, he claimed that the Koran and hadiths predict that islam will collapse and be hounded back to the place of its birth. lets hope.

  • Norman_In_New_York

    Yes, it can be reformed, but it would take the same attitude adjustment that reformed the Japanese Shinto cult in August 1945.

    • Frau Katze

      But that limited to just one country. There 56 in the OIC.

  • Censored_often

    I’m commenting now before reading the above posts, so here goes.

    Reformed Nazism is still Nazism, and reformed Satanism is still satanic. Reformed Islam would still use the koran, and the koran is a wicked vile piece of rubbish.

    Islam cannot be reformed any more than Nazism or Satanism could be.

    • luna

      There are many obstacles to “reforming” Islam. I don’t share AHA’s optimism, but I commend her for “having the conversation”.

      • Drunk_by_Noon

        I think it’s pabulum directed at the nominal Muslims that don’t already want to kill her.
        The prospect of a reformed Islam is essentially Zero and not before the next few hundred years, if even that.
        We don’t have that kind of time.

      • Censored_often

        Yeah, right. I also commend the asshole CEO of Starbucks for having the conversation about race. Needless to say, I hope against hope you’re being extremely sarcastic. Right?

        • luna

          I wasn’t being sarcastic. After discussing why she wrote her new book on the daily show she mentioned that she sees the way forward as starting with “a conversation”.

          I already stated I don’t share her optimism, but she is right that there are some (not as many we would like) Muslim reformers, and we should support them.

          • Censored_often

            Jon Stewart is a fanatical leftist who makes Bill Maher resemble a Tea Party republican by comparison. No wonder she spouted forth this naïve jibberish.

            Yes, there are some Muslim reformers who maintain an allegiance to the religion of their birth for cultural reasons. However, when examined objectively, Islam is a plagiarized mish mash of forms of Judaism and Christianity and Zoroastrianism written by a politically expedient warlord and/or his inner circle to consolidate power. “Allah” is only one tyrannical result of this death cult.

            These reformers mean well, but face hundreds of obstacles, including the koran and its satanic contents, in addition to the common belief that it was dictated by Allah and the angel Gabriel directly to Mohamsandwich.

          • luna

            I don’t really disagree with you.

            But there exist Muslims and ex-Muslims who have been threatened, exiled, imprisoned, tortured, and killed, for denouncing violence, or promoting separation of church and state.

            Ayaan Hirsi Ali is on the same kill list as the Charlie Hebdo staff.

            I don’t expect to see Islam reform itself in my lifetime, but these efforts should be encouraged. In fact I think they should be an integral part of a broad campaign including economic, diplomatic, psychological, sociological, and military components. But this requires inspired leadership, which we are currently lacking.

  • Hard Little Machine

    It’s branding. Islam needs an actual reformation but that requires schism and rebranding. The Catholic church in the west had to split into the CoE, Lutheranism, Methodism, and so on. They didn’t all get to keep the name of Catholicism.

    • luna

      Islam is already fractured into Sunni, Shia, and other sects.